Re: Cops shoot Native American in Lawrence, Kansas

John Veregge (john@pluto.jpl.nasa.gov)
Thu, 18 Jul 1991 11:08:43 PDT


> Original-Sender: kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!marc (Marc Becker)
>
> John:
>
> Will you comment on one more aspect of the story I posted...why did the
> police shoot within 4 minutes and 23 seconds of arriving? Gregg had been
> in his room, depressed all evening. The parents did not dial 911 because
> they felt threatened; they dialed 911 because they wanted professional
> help. Police are regularly called to intervene in domestic disputes and
> similar cases and are expected to difuse violence rather than escalate it.
> More specifically, is it SOP to not ask for more information when arriving
> on such a scene rather than to just enter with guns blazing?
>
> My commentary:
>
> I think this incident is a logical extension of Bush's Persian Gulf war--
> the way to solve problems is to shoot first and then think about asking
> questions.
>
> This happened in the context of numerous unsolved deaths of Native Americans
> in Lawrence, deaths that the police dept. seems to have no interest in
> solving. The police here ARE racist, they make statements such as the only
> serial killer involved in these deaths is as cereal killer (i.e. cereal
> malt, i.e., alcohol). Furthermore, the Lawrence Police Dept is uncertified
> (whatever that means) and have a reputation for hiring people who can get
> jobs no where else.
>
> I, for one, will never again be able to dial 911 without thinking about
> who they might shoot.
>
> Marc Becker

and from an earlier posting...

> I personally find this discussion very relavant to this Newsgroup. The
> attempted extermination of the indigenous population of the Americas has been
> official and/or unofficial policy of the governing police state from Columbus
> through the nineteenth-century "wild west" and continues to manifest itself
> in the actions of present day police states in diverse situations such as
> Guatemala, the Amazon, and here in Lawrence, Kansas. How to end this policy
> and reality of oppression is a very real issue that needs to be confronted
> not only on this newsgroup but everywhere.

Alright, I relent. What follows is my reasoning (irrational notions?) why
this isn't a NativeNet issue. It is a problem faced by many, not just first
peoples. Then I will try to answer the whys of the shooting. Keep in mind I
am making no excuses for anyone, but merely extrapolating from my own
experience in an (possibly futile) attempt to answer your questions.

I may, in fact, be overgeneralizing from my police experience, as my
experience may not apply to Lawrence. But the reason I do think it applies
is every cop I have ever met or read about had similar opinions and behavior.
Cop culture is so closed to the outside world that independent thinking is
fairly rare. I was considered a radical and I rarely stated any opinions.

The reason I think racism is secondary problem, is the prevalent attitude
was always 'us' versus 'them'. 'Them' was not necessarily darker of hue, but
always different from the conservative idea of what constitutes a nice middle
class group. As you might guess, most cops are not pluralists. Thus if the
outsiders are Polynesion, Gypsy, Irish, German, American Native, Afro-
American, or whatever the typical cop response is the same. The only real
difference is which insults get used. It isn't that they aren't racist,
only my belief that if you fired every racist, nothing would really change.

The danger in any beseiged group with concentrating on racism or any other
'ism' allows a police department to deny it or punish a few officers and
then continue with business as usual. The need for all of us is to
concentrate on behavior, which can be regulated in a tight-knit organization,
given accountabilty to civilian authority. As far as I know, this kind of
accountability does not exist in many departments, and it certainly does
not exist for small sub-communities that have little or no voice in the
larger community.

The solution: I wish I had one! Without civilian control and without
enough political muscle to enforce that control, the problem of cops
acting out 'bad western movie' scenerios will continue. Unfortunately
the 'western movie' remark is not a joke. I met more cops than I like
to admit that had John Wayne as their great American hero. Now you know
where they get their behavior from.

As to the specifics of you question, I really think those cops thought
by forcing the situation thought the victim would relent. Once they played
out the 'High Noon' scenerio, they left themselves and the victim with two
alternatives: surrender or die. There is also the unfortunate fact that
there is a psychological thrill from facing an armed suspect. (I cannot
explain it, but I have definitely experienced it.) So there is a great
motivation to charge in with guns drawn and face an 'armed suspect', rather
than delay and allow time for other alternatives. There is also the
possibilty that the radio call came out rather abbreviated. (i.e. Instead
of 'A depressed suicidal man with a knife has locked himself in a room in
his parent's home, he is alone in the room and will not respond to his
parent's pleas', it may have come out as '415 man with a knife', where 415
is shorthand for someone out of control.) None of this excuses the department
from training their people to take the time to understand the situation and
then act slowly and methodically unless forced to do otherwise; AND THEN
enforce that training with proper supervision. I still believe this is from
a diet of far too many westerns and not enough modern training and supervision
by many police departments.

Keep in mind that I am guessing, based on behavior consistant with what I
saw as a cop in Los Angeles. What else could the parent's have done? It's
difficult second guessing a tragedy, but I would have called family first.
Realistically, if the cops had acted with more sense, all they could have
done was talk, and most family members and friends can do the same. If the
police had tried to use non-lethal force to disarm him and they did not
have the methods designed for narcotic suspects (tasers, nets, swarming)
their use of force would probably have escalated to a shooting anyway. The
stuff I have read indicates most people who discuss their suicide or use a
slow method when they are not alone, want to be talked out of it or saved.
Talking and patience were the only reasonable alternatives.

I can't comment on what an uncertified department is, other than it sounds
really frightening. I never heard of certification of a department. Each
state regulates policing and as far as I know, there is no federal
intervention. In California, the authority of a police officer is from the
state legislature and departments are only allowed to hire officers who have
attended and passed state certified peace officer training. You aren't a
peace officer unless a department hires you, but they can't hire you unless
you are certified. The lack of certification may invalidate my extrapolation
(then again it may not), but it reinforces my point about the need for rigid
civilian control of any police department. By civilian, I mean answerable to
the people, not the city management.

HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE ADVICE:
If you live in an area where civilian control of the police is minimal,
or the civilians controlling them, control them selectively, DO NOT CALL
the cops unless the situation can be resolved correctly by the methods
gleaned from old westerns. THIS IS NOT A JOKE! The middle class in this
country have few traditions and take their myths (many of which are from
movies and television) very seriously. Most cops either come from the middle
class or are migrating toward it. I strongly suspect Native Americans are
doubly damned in the eyes of many cops because they are both outsiders and
very much part of the middle class western mythology.

I think you have the Gulf War analogy backwards. I think most wars fought
by the U.S., cop culture, and the historical treatment of Native peoples
have the same roots.

John Veregge