As I mentioned yesterday (Monday), my initial interests that led me to
create these mailing lists are related to my concerns about environ-
mental problems, and, as I said, in learning about destruction of
rainforests and other threatened areas I came to understand that such
matters cannot be addressed realistically without considering the
rights of indgenous peoples who have lived in these regions for
countless generations. The 1989 Smith College "From the Arctic to
Amazonia" conference helped me understand that the urgent issues of
indigenous peoples, though they may vary to some extent from one group
of people and part of the world to another, are all characterized by
the problems caused by the exploitation of the resource base by
outside interests, in the form of originally colonial governments and
(often multi-national) resource extraction corporations.
Monday afternoon, David Ashelman, who has been a member of the NATIVE-L
list for the past year or so, wrote a response to the article I wrote
yesterday. I present his article here, with my comments following.
Perhaps by responding to some of the points David makes I can express
more easily some of the things I've been wanting to say about how I
see this enterprise and the new directions I'd like to take:
| From BU.EDU!capella.unm.edu!kayoshk Mon May 9 16:16:30 1994
| Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 13:14:42 -0600 (MDT)
| From: "Dave (Kayoshk)" <eros.unm.edu!kayoshk>
| Subject: Utopia
| To: native-l@gnosys.svle.ma.us
| Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9405091237.C36611-0100000@capella.unm.edu>
|
|
| Hello Gary and all.
|
| Your recent letter over the net proved to be very interesting. It raises
| several questions I have, as well as a concern.
|
| I understand and sympathize with your enthusiasm to create some sort of
| unity among us as Indian people. However, you are not "Indian", and as
| such have failed to realize that there is already a degree of unity among
| us. You cannot create something which already exists.
|
| Granted, no two nations see eye to eye on every issue. However, each
| nation has issues which are unique to them. For example, I don't think
| the Navajo have the same concerns that the Iroquois have over New York
| State. Simply because the Navajo Nation isn't anywhere near N.Y. In other
| words, while there are problems on a global level for all Native peoples,
| there are problems which are only of regional concerns.
|
| You also mentioned bringing in ALL native peoples into discussion. I
| disagree with that intent. Simply because of the statement above. If you
| want a list for Native Australians, then I suggest you go to Australia to
| start one, since their regional and national concerns are much different
| than on this continent. If you want to start a list for Native Bora
| Borans, then I suggest you go there...and so on.
|
| Simply put, if you did not intent for the list to go in this direction,
| then you should have named the list differently. We CANNOT focus on other
| people's concerns as long as our concerns continue to be ignored, both in
| Washington, and on the internet. The LEAST of our problems, among many,
| is land exploitation. This is nothing considering the fact that land
| exploitation has been going on for 500 years. Some of our biggest
| concerns? Newageism and Shamanism. AIM. Education. Alcoholism. Health
| Care. Religious Freedom. Sovereignty; just to name a few.
|
| Now for my major concern. I am concerned with your honesty, Gary. You did
| not create soc.culture.native. In fact, you failed to mention who really
| created it - Mike Wilson. Could it be that you arrrre angry for not being
| a part of it's creation? I know that you kicked over that. Simply, I
| think that you have brought your pride and ego into the internet matters.
| This is dangerous and detrimental forr the very goal that you wish to
| accomplish.
|
| When the PeaceMaker came to the five nations, he called for everyone to
| lay aside their pride and ego so that they could follow their rational
| thoughts and obtain peace. This peace still exists today, mainly because
| people lay aside their pride and ego. You need to do the same.
|
| In essence, you need to learn a few things from us Indians before you go
| out and try to "save" us. You are determining for us (through your pride
| and ego) what is good for the world and Indians. This is wrong. It strips
| us of our right to self-determination. Whether that self-determination is
| on a national level, an internet level, or a personal level. We have a
| right to be who we are - not what we "ought" to be.
|
| I would strongly suggest that you visit our reservations, and learn
| something from your experiences there. If you have already done this,
| then I would suggest that you go back and learn some more. You, a
| non-Indian person are deciding for us, based on your on pride and ego,
| what issues concern us, and which don't.
|
| This is not a "flame". This is a teaching. Thank you for getting this far
| in my long-windedness.
|
| Honeah!
| Dave
|
| Kayoshk Kayoshk@eros.unm.edu
| Turtle Clan Kayoshk@bootes.unm.edu
| Seneca Nation (Cattaraugus) (bitnet) Kayoshk@UNMB
| Haudenosaunee
|
| "North American governments are like the Borg - they will assimilate, and
| claim resistance is futile."
David starts by talking about my "enthusiasm to create some sort of
unity among ... Indian people." Actually, I have never thought myself
capable of doing such a thing, and don't feel that even making such an
attempt would be appropriate. In fact, I'm not even sure how we would
know that unity had actually been achieved. I would state my purposes
as being to help perpetuate the spirit of the conference I attended,
and to carry on the kind of dialogue that began there, as well as to
facilitate exchanges of information and points of view about a range
of subjects pertaining to the lives and well-being of indigenous
peoples of all parts of the world. The NativeNet mailing lists are not
conceived primarily as a vehicle for indigenous people to communicate
with and come to understand one another better (though I, for one,
would certainly be thrilled if such a thing were to come to pass).
Rather, I hope that the lists have been and will continue to be a way
for both indigenous and non-indigenous people to exchange information
and ideas about a variety of topics relating to the First Peoples of
the various parts of the world, with the result of increasing under-
standing on all sides, as well as helping our members to advance their
own personal projects and develop their interests. I also hope that
we can engage in some projects together (I'll have more to say about
this topic in a forthcoming article) that can in some way confront the
problems faced by indigenous peoples, and which affect us all in one
way or another.
David is, of course, correct in observing that many problems are
unique to given regions and the people living there. However, one of
the great benefits of communication of any form, whether it is between
two groups of people or just between two individual persons, is that it
can help them to put their own unique situations into a larger context.
By sharing accounts of their problems and concerns with one another,
people may be able to learn about approaches to their own problems that
may not have occurred to them immediately - and they may be able to
share information that can have an even more immediate and direct kind
of benefit. Even if problems on opposite sides of the planet seem to
not be related to one another, there are patterns having to do with
the kinds of geopolitical forces at play in the world today. One of
the tremendous sources of inspiration and satisfaction for the people
who attended the Smith College conference in 1989 was that people who
may not have even known of one another's existence prior to the weekend
we spent together came to understand that problems and experiences they
may have always felt to be unique to themselves were shared in very
important ways by others - and they could take back with them to their
own communities stories of the people they had heard and talked with,
and perhaps even form collaborations that could permit providing more
substantial kinds of assistance to one another. (Realistically, though
when staying in touch over long distances is so difficult, it may be
that not many such partnerships were actually formed - BUT with the
kind of communications technology we have readily available to us, it
would be a simple matter to create and sustain such working relationships,
and I hope that we will give very serious consideration to trying to
more consciously investigate this potential, and to consider embarking
on projects that will permit us to work together in concerted ways to
achieve results that advance our common interests, as well as to do
what we can to make the technology more widely available to people whose
lives are directly affected by these problems who would otherwise not
have access to it.)
I sense David's frustration, and I share it. The specific problems he
lists are very troubling ones, and good solutions are urgently needed.
We cannot even begin to approach such problems, I feel, without gaining
a good understanding of their nature and origin and relationship to
one another. The Smith College conference helped me to see how these
kinds of problems are universally faced to one degree or another by
indigenous peoples in all parts of the world, and in each case they
have been brought on and maintained by exploitative relationships, and
that we all have a part in things being what they are. I feel we must
be careful not to "lose sight of the forest for (all of) the trees."
David suggests I am not being honest in mentioning, as I did yesterday,
having a hand in creating the "soc.culture.native" newsgroup on Usenet.
The fact is that no one person is capable of creating a Usenet newsgroup
in one of the "mainstream" hierarchies (such as "soc."). Mike Wilson,
whom David mentioned, did propose a "soc.culture.native-american" news-
group, and wrote an initial draft of a charter for that newsgroup. I
and others worked with Mike to revise that charter and to reconceptualize
the newsgroup into an entity that would deal with issues of all Native
peoples, not only those of North and South America. I put a lot of
effort into administrative discussions in the "news.groups" newsgroup
prior to the vote which approved its creation, and I wrote and posted
several articles urging NATIVE-L subscribers to vote in favor of the
proposal. I feel that without the large bloc of votes from NATIVE-L
subscribers, the proposal would have had a much more difficult time
passing, but I don't care to argue the point. If anyone would like to
review the facts of the matter of my having strongly encouraged NATIVE-L
members to vote in favor of the soc.culture.native newsgroup proposal,
please feel free to examine the NATIVE-L archives, online at TAMVM1:
3261 93/02/01 19:28 211 CFV: soc.culture.native - PLEASE READ!!
3321 93/02/15 20:32 336 2nd CFV and VOTE ACK: soc.culture.native
3332 93/02/18 05:32 45 soc.culture.native - PLEASE VOTE!!
3398 93/02/23 09:56 430 3rd CFV and VOTE ACK: soc.culture.native
3485 93/03/03 23:54 329 RESULT: soc.culture.native passes 238:45
3489 93/03/04 19:42 33 Thanks: soc.culture.native (apparently) passes
3537 93/03/16 03:45 227 NativeNet / soc.culture.native marriage
If you want copies of these articles, just send a message to the address
"listserv@tamvm1.tamu.edu" containing the text:
// job echo=no
database search dd=rules
//rules dd *
select * in native-l from jan 93 to 16 feb 93
print 3261,3321,3332,3398,3485,3489,3537
/*
(that's the numeral "1" in "tamvm1" and the letter "l" in "native-l").
I also have in my own personal archives transcripts of electronic mail I
exchanged with Mike Wilson and others regarding the creation of this
Usenet newsgroup while we were working on the project together. I
certainly do not intend or desire to downplay the role of Mike in
getting the soc.culture.native newsgroup created. He worked long and
hard in helping conceptualize the proposal and in getting it voted on
and passed, but he certainly didn't do it all single-handedly.
As for laying aside ego and "saving" people, I agree with David whole-
heartedly on these points, since they have long been fundamental
principles of mine. I'm not trying to "save" anyone, but only to
enable clear channels of communications about issues that I feel are
vitally important to us all, Native and non-Native.
So, to get back to my earlier topic, my own interests lie most strongly
in looking at and working on issues having to do with resource
exploitation and the environmental issues which surround those subjects
from a perspective that includes as a priority an examination of the
importance of considering the human and legal rights of indigenous
peoples, and which looks to their traditional wisdom as a vital means of
dealing with the global crisis brought about as a result of unchecked
"development" and its insatiable resource requirements. I'll have more
to say in future articles how I'd like to go about the task and how the
existing mailing lists can relate to this project. I expect that the
lists will carry on in pretty much the same form as they now have, but
with more help from the NativeNet community as a whole to supplement my
own energies.
Gary
--
Gary S. Trujillo gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,cdp}!gnosys!gst